Pain That Wakes Us Up At Night

---

Dr. David

Hello El Paso! This is Dr. David physical therapist from El Paso Manual Physical Therapy. Welcome to the show. I've got Adrianne Ortega here, expert acupuncturist she's the best in the southwest, definitely the best in El Paso. And we're going to be talking about fertility today. That's one of her big specialties. So, I'll let Adrianne tell you all about that. But first let's hear about Adrianne. So, Adrianne, where you from?

Adrianne Ortega 

I'm from here, El Paso, Texas. I actually graduated from high school like, you don't have to say how many years ago, but it was quite a few years ago. Like there was a big reunion last year. So yeah, I went to Montwood, I then went to St. Mary's University in San Antonio and then I transferred up to Weber State University in Utah. Went out of state for a little bit. So, graduated from there and then made my way back to Texas, and in particular to Austin, Texas, and that's where I went to AOMA Graduate School of Integrative Medicine for what I currently doing, you know, I'm an acupuncturist, so I went there for my degree in traditional Chinese medicine.

Dr. David

That's so cool. And you know, one of the interesting stories that I remember when I first met Adrianne and learned about her acupuncture schools. I went to school in Austin as well. I lived in Austin for a long time. And there was a coffee shop around the corner. I don't remember the name anymore, but from the acupuncture school that you went to, and I would always pass by that school and think, oh, that's neat. They have an acupuncture school right here in Austin. And, and so when Adrianne brought it up, I was like, I know where it is, I know that school. I've seen it. I've looked through the windows. Yeah, that's pretty cool. So anyways, you've got your practice here in El Paso. So, tell us about it. What's the name? Where's it at? How long has it been going?

Adrianne Ortega 

Yeah, um, it's on the acupuncture and here located in central El Paso 3330 Purshing. This will be our sixth year. It's gone by really quick. And yes, so we're here on the corner of Luna and Purshing.

Dr. David

Awesome. That's, that's so cool. And so, what's something very unique about your practice?

Adrianne Ortega 

Well, I think something that's really unique about my practice is that I basically fell in love with my practice and practicing medicine. And I think the other thing that's really unique and led me to this medicine is because I feel like there is a very personal quality to the medicine. It's not like per se a series of tests someone, okay, you check off this box. And that's means that that's how the treatments going to go. I really like this medicine because you can really tailor it to each person that walks in the door. So that's what I try to do here. At Alma Acupuncture, I really try to tailor what I do in my medicine for each person. It's not like a one size fits all. It's really nice that I can really make it for every person that walks in because every person is unique. Right? So that's the way I try to treat them with treatment.

Dr. David

Yeah, I've seen your practice. You take your time and you make sure you know everything that's going on you asked tons of questions. So, I've I can vouch for Adrianne, she really does make it extremely personal. Well, if you don't mind, can we talk about fertility some more?

Adrianne Ortega 

Oh, absolutely. For sure.

Dr. David

I know it's one of your favorite topics. So, fertility Tell us about it. What is it exactly and what got you interested in it?

Adrianne Ortega 

Well, I got really interested in it. Because in I was about, I think I was 25-26 years old. I had just moved to Austin. And I kind of just kind of hit a wall immune system wise, I started getting really sick really often had never had that issue. And all of a sudden, I was just getting sick all the time feeling really lethargic. Lots of fatigue, which for 25-26-year-old, that's just not, it's not normal.

So, I would go to doctors, and I didn't get a lot of answers. They would do tests and more tests and other panel here and another panel there and they're like, “no, everything's fine”. Like, no, I'm not buying it, this is not okay to feel so exhausted and depleted all the time. And inadvertently, because of that, pretty intense fatigue. I started having some other, nothing serious, but some hormonal issues. So, I started seeking answers. I was like, Okay, well, I'm not getting very many answers through my gynecologist or my PCP and other specialists in the western medicine.

So, I started exploring going to a chiropractor, and I started going to a naturopath and this, and then someone recommended to go to acupuncture was like, “Oh, I went to an acupuncturist a couple years ago, sure. I'm familiar with acupuncture, fairly familiar.” I'd gone, for maybe 6-12 treatments.

So, like, okay, I'll go explore this and they were like, Oh, we should go see, Jen-Jen. I was like, oh, okay, I'm going to go see Jen-Jen. I was given her card. And so, I went on this path of healing and I started feeling better.

I just started feeling better. I went to my appointments, I started making herbs that I was drinking these powders. I don't know what I was drinking, but I knew that I was feeling better and I was feeling different. So, even though I didn't know the science or my diagnosis per se, I just knew that I was feeling better and I just kind of started falling in love with it.

So, from there, my practitioner Jen-Jen actually ended up being a professor that my grad school that specialize in gynecology had no idea I had no idea that she specialized in gynecology. All I knew is that she was making me feel better. I all I knew was that I was less sick, and my hormone issues were much more controlled, and I had more energy. That's all I knew is how I was feeling and that she helped me.

Dr. David

Wow. So, it was Jen-Jen that it’s kind of sparked your interest in the in the fertility field and gynecology more specifically?

Adrianne Ortega 

A little bit? Yeah, for sure. I started getting really interested into like, Oh, well, let me start reading more about you know, I started reading more books about women's health. And then I shared the learning about different herbs, and I started learning more about what was going on damn parts of my cycle. Like I really started becoming a student. Before I even went to grad school. I was kind of just like, delving into the female body. And I was like, Oh, yeah, it was it was it was quite the process, but I definitely learned a lot about myself.

Dr. David

So how I mean I'm just so that everybody is kind of on the same page who might be listening to this podcast, how big of a deal is it to see like, how many people are actually having you know, gynecological problems or fertility problems? That, that end up going to go to a seeking an acupuncturist help.

Adrianne Ortega 

Are you seeing like how many women need to make sure? How many of my patients are women's health? Are you saying like how many women and the general population have these issues?

Dr. David

Yea, the general population, like how many people are going to their typical gynecologist, to the mainstream, and then aren’t getting helped and really could be seeing somebody like you?

Adrianne Ortega 

Absolutely. I mean, a lot of people. I mean, if you go to let's just say a patient is diagnosed with dysmenorrhea, very basic dysmenorrhea is painful menstruation. That is awful, because that's happening every single month to a woman. It's a big population, about 20-30% of women suffer from dysmenorrhea. Now, the only treatment that Western medicine at this time has is birth control pills. That's the number one. And the second thing that they give are muscle relaxants. Now, women like to go work and like to take care of their families and you know, live from day to day.

Now, if you're taking muscle relaxant that's going to be really intense, and you're going to have all these other side effects. The other thing women like to do, is eventually, not everybody, they want to get pregnant. So, if they're on the birth control pill, and they're for painful menstruation, but at some point, in the childbearing age, you want to have a child, then they're kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place. And that's kind of where alternative therapies, you know, are really helpful, like acupuncture.

Dr. David

I you know, I guess been a been a male, I'm not 100% familiar with it, but you know, being the medical field, you know, knowing you, of course, being married and all that, I hear about all the problems that lady's run into, but I guess I don't have that. You know that that personal experience.

Adrianne Ortega 

But you know, you go to a barbecue and you heard so and so they want a second child. Don't you hear those stories? Or, oh, so and so's wife couldn't make it. She wasn't feeling well, because right now, we all know, I mean, we may not know someone directly, but you know, someone indirectly, if not in your circle that's suffering from some kind of woman's health issue.

Dr. David

So, is it being the infertility problem, usually that in other words, if somebody can't get pregnant or they don't want to get pregnant, there's a reason for that is because there may be on birth control to avoid the painful menstruation?

Unknown Speaker 

I mean, that can happen sometimes. Right? Some other reasons and what can lead them into my office also, because then, let's just say they got birth control pills, since they're 14. Now they walk in my door. 16 years later, they've been on birth control for 16 Yours. They have not had any normal hormonal regulation for all those years, and let's just say they've been off with a pill for two years. They're like, Oh, I haven't had a pill in two years. I mean, how I had a period in two years. That's a problem.

Dr. David

So, there's people that have been on birth control, for 10-15 plus years, then get off birth control, and still don't have a period.

Adrianne Ortega 

Sometimes that happens, but that happens often. I almost see it a couple times a month. Well, I'll have, and it's called, it's actually has a name. It's called birth control. amenorrhea. It's lack of a menstrual administration, due to birth control. Now, they weren't doing anything wrong. They were they went to the doctor, their parents are going to the doctor and they needed help, because you know, she was missing school, or she was missing soccer, or she was missing. She just wanted to feel better. So, the natural solution Western medicine provides is getting on birth control. That's the path of least resistance. Right? But now they're walking in 30-35 years old now 15-20 years later, and they want to conceive and they're having a hard time.

Dr. David

Wow. Well, this is good. Are there any other very common reasons that people have fertility problems? So, you mentioned you know, there aren't they may be on birth control for a long time. You mentioned they had painful cycles. Are there any other big ones that that come to mind that people might often come in for fertility?

Adrianne Ortega 

Sure, for sure. There's PCOS, which is it's called polycystic ovarian syndrome. And it's actually an endocrine response. It's an endocrine dysregulation, and that's about 10% of the population. Of women have that. Now what happens there is that their period gets very irregular. It's just kind of just all over the place. It's like it'll come every 35 days and only like 60 days. So that's one big reason why people come into my office.

Now what happens there because a PCOS that's also really hard, is if someone suffers from PCOS and they are able to conceive, they have like a kind of like a 15% chance they'll actually miscarry. So, I mean, that always exists, right? One of our four pregnancies end in miscarriage, but that goes up even more if they had the diagnosis of PCOC.

The same goes for endometriosis. Endometriosis has to be more of the population. It's like 15 to 20% of the population. Women suffer from endometriosis and they have really painful periods where they're having to go to the ER, and causing other endocrine issues and, and implantation issues when they do conceive, and it makes them about 20% more likely to also have miscarry.

Dr. David

Oh my gosh this is so good, I'm so glad again being a guy I'm playing the dumb the dumb guy card here you know my specialty I'm in a completely different field as far as like section of the health field. I'm in you know musculoskeletal stuff but I'm learning so much just listen listening about this because I guess in my mind, with my dumb guy brain, I think that the lady organs are like, genetically, you know from birth they've had problems or there's some issue that happened that there's like some damage to an organ, but from what you're saying that's not really the case. It's just that they've been on say birth control for too long or they've got some other hormonal problem and that's what you help them with through treatments. So, this is so cool. It's awesome.

Adrianne Ortega 

I kind of want to, is it okay if I touch on maybe... I also treat male factor fertility.

Dr. David

Yeah, let's talk about,

Adrianne Ortega 

Let's really talk about that, because a lot of good research is coming out that male factor is a serious factor. And to be perfectly honest, I would say about 80% of the couples that do come in actually have male factor and female factor.  In my office, in my office, right? It's kind of crazy. Like, I think that's what is a little bit different about me and that's why you want to find an acupuncturist that specializes in fertility, because I asked my couples to bring in their labs because I want to see her lab-work and the male lab-work.

Dr. David

That's going to be so relieving for the lady in the relationship to be like, it's not just me, it's you too. And, you know, we need to fix this problem on both sides of the relationship so that we can start a family or continue.

Adrianne Ortega 

I mean, it's important to look at both because it takes two people to make this other person, right. So yeah, so I look at storm analysis very, very often. And I actually am seeing a remarkable decline in quality in quantity and count. I mean, I have 30-year-old coming in, and their analysis are comparable to someone in their 50s.

It's our lives, our lives are really intense. We work a little too hard or you drink too much coffee, we drink too much alcohol or drinking too much sodas, right? And not that it's like that for every everybody. But if you put all of those really intense things together, it's also causing some hormonal dysregulation for the men, and they've even did a huge study in Britain last year, and that sperm counts, just the count, not the quality, just the count has been cut by half since the 20s.

Dr. David

Oh my gosh. It's all the stuff in our, in our diets

Adrianne Ortega 

It's the lack of, you know, vitamins and minerals in our diets. And it's the lack of vitamins and minerals in the soil and maybe not hydrating enough and not sleeping well. And so, it's a lot of things.

Dr. David

Wow, wow, this is so cool. I'm learning so much, Adrianne, thank you so much for sharing all this. So, I think you've covered why you're an expert in fertility. For me, you're definitely the person I'm going to go to if I ever have someone who has problems, or myself of course. So why should people come and see you if they have a fertility problem? What's like the main thing? Is there anybody else in town that does or to do or is what's different about you?

Adrianne Ortega 

What's different about me is that I'm a fellow of aborn and a form that American Board of Oriental Reproductive Medicine. Now why that's a little bit different is because I know and I study as much as they can, the current research that's being done on male factor infertility seminalysis, you know, the newest developments on PCOS and hormonal dysregulation, endometriosis.

So, whenever I went, and I sat for my board exam, I mean, the board exam actually was about 75% Western medicine. So, I can read labs, like very comparable to like a reproductive endocrinologist, like I didn't know what they're talking about and why they are going to reproductive endocrinologist.

So, you know, I not only help people, families that are trying to conceive naturally, but I also help people that, you know, have to go the IVF route and invitro route. Or they have to do AUI or, you know, there's one more because of so many issues PCOS and endometriosis versus male factor or even a history of cancer. Right? They have to do IVF right.

So, then I can help support them in that fertility process. So that's what makes me different and basically 90% of my continuing education that I take every year, that's required to be a member of the board. Um, you know, it's in women's health.

Dr. David

So that's in addition to your general acupuncture training.

Adrianne Ortega 

Yes, very much so.

Dr. David

So, you went to college, you got your bachelor's degree, then you went to your masters, and then you went to acupuncture school. And so, you're, that's already putting you in an acupuncturist. And then you did a specialist training in the in the women's health stuff?

Adrianne Ortega 

Right and I passed my board exam which I studied.

Dr. David

Gosh, yeah, that's a lot of school.

Adrianne Ortega 

It’s a lot of school. That board exam is no joke.

Dr. David

Well, so that's really good information. When somebody comes to you for treatment. So, I think one of the burning questions everybody has I know whenever I recommend you to people, they're like, is acupuncture going to hurt? And I tell them because I've had it myself. You know, you've worked on me before, and does not hurt at all from it from my experience. But what what's your description or what do you tell people about what you do with the needles?

Adrianne Ortega 

Yeah, so with the acupuncture, normal sensations are a slight prick, heaviness, pressure, it might get warm in the area because increasing blood flow. But that's about it. In my in my professional opinion, it shouldn't be painful. Every once in a while. If someone comes in with pretty intense carpal tunnel syndrome, right? It's really inflamed. It can be a little tender. But should it be stabbing and painful? In my professional opinion? Absolutely not. Then maybe it's time to go see someone else.

Dr. David

I've had it done and it literally feels like pressure. It doesn't. It's maybe a tiny little poke. I say comparable to like a mosquito bite. I think I've actually had mosquitoes that had bitten me that had been more painful than an acupuncture needle.

Adrianne Ortega 

I would definitely agree.

Dr. David

I'm serious. Adrianne's touch is so gentle, or I remember the first time she did it I and I'm just to give you guys a backstory. I'm terrified of needles. I've passed out several times I've had my blood drawn. Of course, those are big giant needles in order to get blood out, but the acupuncture needles are really thin. And it feels like just pressure and it's it was really painless. I was when I remember seen a picture because he took a picture, I wanted to see ask her to. And I was like all those needles were in my bag. No way. I didn't feel them. That's nuts. So, it was pretty good. What else do you do besides the acupuncture needling, and all those other things you do here in house.

Adrianne Ortega 

Um, so I recommend supplements and I recommend Chinese herbs and other you know, lifestyle, dietary alterations. If someone that has PCOS I tell them, they should do this, should eat this, not that… that kind of thing. So, and then now, especially for certain, I have a patient that comes in and has a history of miscarrying for example, and repeated pregnancy loss, then I really want to make sure that that's not going to happen again at the 10th week. So, when I write up herbal prescription. And we make it here and we encapsulate it, and we put it in capsules for them.

Dr. David

Oh, that's cool. So, you guys actually put the herbs and the pills?

Adrianne Ortega 

Yeah, like I make it specifically for them. Another thing is I have this other patient she can't get a formal diagnosis about what's going on with her. She doesn't clot fast enough. So postpartum we helped her to prevent her that she would bleed too much. Well, so I made her a formula for that.

Dr. David

Wow. Are people coming to you and leaving their other doctors, or are they seeing them alongside you?

Adrianne Ortega 

Both. I feel like both, which I'm happy to do. I mean, actually, some other doctors are referring them to me now. I would I get I get referrals from all of the doctors that do IVF anyway, I get referrals from them now.

But are they leaving them? Sometimes they take a break, but they just need to kind of leave Western medicine for a little bit, take a break, and kind of recuperate and make that mind body connection and spirit connection again. Unfortunately, sometimes Western medicine and kind of keep that out. So, it's nice for them to come over here and reconnect with their bodies and their spirit. And then I refer out and I want them to get tested, because there's, it gives me a broader perspective about what's really going on. So, it's a little bit of both, really, so and I think that's, that is what's different than me.

I don't think there's just one way and that's the best way I think everybody has their journey in healing. And I'm just happy to meet them where they are and help them and support them in that process. If they are needing support and help somewhere else, then we'll help you find that somewhere else, you know, whether that's what that reproductive endocrinologist or he go talk to a therapist that we have referrals for that.

Dr. David

Cool, awesome. So when should somebody in El Paso reach out to you like what problems should they have? You know, what signs should they be looking for? At what point should they say I need to go to Alma Acupuncture and talk to Adrianne because I have this, this and that or I'm in this situation?

Adrianne Ortega 

Well, if we're talking about fertility, and someone's trying to conceive, at any age, I say if there's no success in six months com e in.

Dr. David

So, they have been trying for six months, nothing's happening.

Adrianne Ortega 

I know some doctors really pushed for a year, and I just I feel like my patients wanted to be pregnant three months ago. So, come in sooner than later. I have never met anyone that's like, Oh, I can't I you know, they all come in and we're like, oh, Dr. So, and So told me to come in six months ago, I should have come in sooner. Or my girlfriend told me let you know three months ago I should have come in.

So, I don't really have anyone that's like, Oh, I shouldn't really come in. They're always like, oh, why didn't I come earlier? Often that's what happens. And you know, if they have male factor, if they're going to do IVF the donor cycle like for sure you need to invest because you're investing a lot of time and money. You need to, you need to come to acupuncture because it increases your chances of conception by two-fold, which is pretty amazing.

And also, if you know if you have other issues going on anything that has to do with hormonal hot flashes, migraines, headaches. Like I was talking about you know, carpal tunnel? I actually thought almost on a weekly probably on a weekly basis, actually, if I really look at it, knee pain, things like that. So, pain, allergies. Come on in.

Dr. David

I do have one question. I think this is super helpful for the listeners. Do you have an example, you not to share any names, of course, have a client that had a really cool success story like with fertility specifically? They came in and maybe waited too long to see you, and then you know, they were having a fertility problem, and then ended up having a great outcome.

Adrianne Ortega 

For sure. Yeah, for sure. I have a patient right that I can think of to him right now. And I'll try to set both really cool. Yeah, really good stories. One of them. In particular, I believe she's 38 years old. She has two children and got remarried. Comes in. Now they had already gone to reproductive endocrinologist really doesn't want to do IVF she just like I really don't want to do it. It's so expensive. It's so much work. It is a lot of work. I tell women doing IVF is like having a part time job takes longer than the intense. And I was like, oh, there's male factor here. We can improve these numbers. Let's improved the quality of your egg. Let's improve the quality of the sperm. And let's see what we can do here. Like it already seen the reproductive endocrinologist. The doctor told her you needed to go just straight to IVF. Like that's what he told her. Okay. On the second month, she got pregnant.

Dr. David

Oh my gosh. Second month working with you.

Adrianne Ortega 

Second month. She took the herbs, she took the supplements. She tweaked her diet just a tad. That was huge. He made some changes. He took his herbs. That was it.

Dr. David

So, the so just let me make sure I got the story straight. So, your patient had seen another doctor who was recommending they had tried some stuff recommending going to IVF which is invitro fertilization.

Adrianne Ortega 

He himself that does it, recommended that she do invitro right away.

Dr. David

And just a side note, what's IUI I I'm not sure.

Adrianne Ortega 

Intrauterine Insemination.  So, IVF invitro, puts the egg and the sperm together and makes an embryo right. IUI it's just timing it. Does that make sense?

Dr. David

Yeah, it's all happening inside the body.

Adrianne Ortega 

Yes, exactly. And then IVF happens outside the body, which is considerably much more than so let's add another $20,000 to it.

Dr. David

Wow. Yeah, that's a lot of a lot of dough for sure. Plus, all the work involved. Okay, so then this lady, your patient, was recommended to begin IVF treatment which is the more expensive, more time-consuming version, she came to you did treatments for to within two months she was pregnant. Naturally.

Adrianne Ortega 

Yeah. And I told her you got to give it three months.

Dr. David

That's awesome. That's crazy. Yeah. And is that a common outcome for you like is that very typical?

Adrianne Ortega 

The average actually is three to seven months.

Dr. David

Okay, so that was a faster one.

Adrianne Ortega 

It was.

Dr. David

But three to seven months is about either was comfortable. You're waiting for a year.

Adrianne Ortega 

Right? Right. So that's why I always say coming sooner than later. Don't wait for the year. Just coming after six months. If it hasn't happened. Come in, let's just get everything going faster in that way. Everyone's happy and can go on and have their family move on. So, the other patient I want her to actually touch on is a PCOS patient.

Dr. David

Polycystic Ovarian Syndrome.

Adrianne Ortega 

Correct. So, there's like a hormonal dysregulation going on. I've been trying to conceive for about a year, and nothing had really happened. Also, I noticed that there is a male factor. So, I made some suggestions for him. He never needed to really come it wasn't that severe. He needed to come in and get acupuncture. But send him with some herbs. boxers, not briefs, which is a huge thing, right. And then for her, she just started coming in. She was in my office. You know, she came in here once a week for three months. It took a little bit longer. She also went to a doctor, and the doctor was like. “No, we need to do IUI for a couple of cycles. And then we'll reevaluate, because this is not this isn't working.” And so, she was actually going to do IOI. And she actually got pregnant. I think it was on the fifth month. She got pregnant on the very fifth month, and she's 38 Weeks Pregnant this this week.

Dr. David

Oh my gosh. So, they're expecting pretty much next month. Wow.

Adrianne Ortega 

Yeah, so she worked really, really hard. I was super, super proud of her.

Dr. David

That's awesome. That's incredible to hear about. And I'm just the, because, you know, we have three kids, I have three kids, my wife and I, and we're very fortunate to both be very fertile. Don't have any problems, thank God. But, you know, we hear about it all the time. We hear about people having miscarriages and struggling to get pregnant and having complicated pregnancies. And, and we hear about the pregnancy, typically, because that's when people announced like, “I’m pregnant!”, but we know we don't hear about all the stuff that happens before, which is when you're dealing with the fertility side of things, leading up to getting pregnant.

Adrianne Ortega 

Which is really stressful. It doesn't really matter what the couples struggling with. Whether it's recurrent pregnancy loss or it's male factor or it's PCOS or its endometriosis or whatever it is. It's really hard. And what happens a lot with these families, they feel very isolated. And there's a lot of shame and stress associated with it as well. It's not something that always talked about, I think more and more people are being more honest and truthful about what is going on what they have been suffering with. But it's still not at the level I think that people are really aware of.

Dr. David

Yeah. Oh, yeah. People don't talk about this on a regular basis for sure.

Adrianne Ortega 

And, you know, part of it is that people are waiting longer to conceive, right? You want they want to go to grad school, or they want to go to law school or, you know, all those medical school like, that takes a long time. So, there are other factors that are playing into this, but I do know that acupuncture helps with the stress.

Dr. David

Yeah. Oh, yeah, I can. I can vouch for that. For sure. My wife has seen Adrianne, my hope my wife doesn't listen to this. She gets night terrors so she wakes up screaming in the middle of the night and you know it was it was a serious problem to the point where she was having to you know get a sleep study done and she was she broke her hands what happened she got a middle the night fell out of the bed broke her third metacarpal which is a bone like right in the middle of the hand one that you never really ever break it's not at all common.

Had to miss work for two months and the doctors after the sleep study said well, we could put you on medication that's going to be the best thing. Or you could try meditation and my wife was like I don't want medication. I can do meditation, I can pray, I can do all that stuff. But you know I need something else to it's not it's not cutting it one time she fell in nicked the corner eyebrow on the nightstand and you know, an inch down or less than it would have been her eye. Who knows she have two eyes at this point? And she's doing it subconsciously you know she's asleep.

So, I didn't even know Adrianne could work with people in this situation. But you know, I can see how it's a stress related issue and my wife has had a much better outcome since then she still gets little flare ups here and there. She's very conscious of managing her stress, of course, but Gosh, if it gets out of hand, we're coming right back into sleep.

It's pecking on the medications because that's a little bit ball game. And you know, if it's, I'm not personally and I think you're probably the same stance, I'm not completely against it in the right situation, the right circumstances, but there are other alternatives many, many times more often than not.

Adrianne Ortega 

I agree.

Dr. David

So, do you have anything else you want to share with El Pasoans before we start wrapping up?

Adrianne Ortega 

Yes, if you are someone who you know, is going to be embarking on IUI or IVF, you want to send them my way? Or do acupuncture don't have to do with me, if they're in Phoenix and tell them that kind of good acupuncturist because it'll increase your chances of concession two-fold.

Which is by 50%. And if you know anyone that is either a first-time mom, they're pregnant. You know, if they start coming in at 36 weeks, once a week, it decreases labor by three to six hours. I think that's pretty huge. They don't call it labor for nothing. So, yeah, I could help in any way. That would be great, because I've had some amazing success stories with first time moms that came in.

Dr. David

That's nuts, decreasing labor by three to six hours…  I've seen my wife go through labor three times. And if we could keep it to like five minutes, that'd be awesome. So that's an awesome statistic. Great! Well in closing, so if anyone wants to come and learn more about you or your clinic, or maybe even make an appointment, what's the best way to get in touch Adrianne?

Adrianne Ortega 

For sure. You can call us here at 915-201-9303, you can also check out our website, maybe learn a little bit more. I mean, go to almaacupuncture-ep.com, and you can just hit us up whenever you're interested in ready to make an appointment.

Dr. David

Awesome. Thank you so much. I really appreciate you coming onto the show and giving us your expertise. So, we can spread this all over El Paso. If I just thank you so much. I'm really grateful for you.

Adrianne Ortega 

Thank you. It was fun.

Dr. David

We'll see you guys later. Bye.

The show is available on Anchor | Spotify | iTunes | Google Podcast | and others...

---

Would You Like To Talk With A Specialist?

Choose which one works best for you…